12 O clock and Sikhs

A friend posted this link with these comments and the followed by the exchange of messages :

For all those who had doubts ki Sardaron ke 12 kyun bajte hain....!!!!

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1362843636830&ref=mf

Shyam Malick: The clip is trying to appease the right emotions, with wrong factual information.

H S Chadha Really!!! Then would you try to portray the right FACTS and educate all of us.

SM : I have Harjeev ji,earlier. Unfortunately it ends up in senseless debate and discussions, with many bucolic dolts getting in with perverted logics. We shall certainly talk this decently in private. :)

HSC: Shyam sir, I would appreciate if you would read this article which is quite self explanatory

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/12_O'clock_joke

SM :I've read it, and I have read literature that precedes Sikhwiki, and even the SGPC act of 1925. Rest assured, my facts are not devised to serve anyone's purpose. Just to tell you about the veracity of the above mentioned link, and the sources and resources upon which they have been created...none of these will tell you about ancient Gurmukhi inscriptions in places like Azerbaijan, and the true story of their reaching their?

As a person of learning and wisdom, I must caution you about not getting entrapped in politically engineered history!

HSC:As with every fact, there will always be believers and nonbelievers. What this video and many such material rightly convey is the inherent spirit of Sikhism which is to stand up against injustice being done to oneself and/or others without expecting recognition or reward. I am not aware of any other entity in Human history who has sacrificed his father & four sons (sarbans) to fight against terror being wrecked on other sects only in the name of righteousness. I believe that happened and I am proud of that fact. So, respected sir, you are entitled to your views of disagreement. I have nothing to gain by convincing anyone and nothing to lose otherwise.

Further FYI The SGPC act is meant for the maintenance of our historical Gurudwaras and to appoint stewards for their service and is not an authority on our religion's history.

SM:I initiated this with "The clip is trying to appease the right emotions..."

As far as these views:"The SGPC act is meant for the maintenance of our historical Gurudwaras and to appoint stewards for their service and is not an authority on our religion's history." I assure you, it is one super efficient organisation, which id doing much more, and in many more fields, than it is mandated to do!

Let us not forget their 'diligence' to their mandate, when they mutely and helplessly saw terrorists defecate inside and desecrate the Golden temple itself?

I'll still recommend a healthy personal discussion on the film, when we gather together.

Harbeer Chadha:

History is fact but rumors and conspiracy theories on the other hand are always politically motivated.
The true story of the ancient Gurmukhi scriptures reaching Azerbaijan is hardly a secret and certainly not limited to that country. The existence of ancient Gurmukhi scriptures can be factually traced in places as geographically varied as Meca (Saudi Arabia) and Baghdad (Iraq) even. The events of those visits by Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji are elucidated for one and all in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. If someone chooses to misinterpret them or doubt the integrity and intention behind them, then such a man is only giving proof of his naivety and ignorance and its best to leave such a character alone with his forsaken thoughts. After all there are even people who counter even the existence of God almighty (Atheists). We should just let them be. We Sikhs are and always will be proud of our history.

SM:

‎@ Mr.Harbeer. There exist no Gurmikhi inscriptions in Mecca ! Show me one tangible proof?

You have stated "The true story of the ancient Gurmukhi scriptures reaching Azerbaijan is hardly a secret..." Please enlighten us all with this 'Known secret'? Leave that... just name the city where they could be found?? Or even a big city close to that place? Please do I am waiting to learn from you?

I earnestly request you not to let religious fervor overtake logical realities. People with the bankruptcy of facts often take the recourse of personal attacks. I hold Harjeev high in regard, and expect his friends to be equally virtuous.

It is so pathetic. A simple comment on the film has enraged your religious fangs! What kind of insecurity are you exhibiting?

Please do not be the first person to prove right, what I had said very initially. "... Unfortunately it ends up in senseless debate and discussions, with many bucolic dolts getting in with perverted logics."

HC

‎@ Mr Malik: 1. THE MAJESTY & GRACE OF SRI HARMANDIR SAHIB IS SO HIGH THAT IT CAN NEVER BE DESECRATED BY ANYONE, IT IS JUST NOT POSSIBLE, whether it is a coward gun wielding terrorist no matter what profanities they perform they will never be able to affect the dignity of that place . Even the mughals tried doing it in the 1700’s by deputing the debaucher lieutenant Massa Rangar there. It could not be done then, it could not be done in 1984, and it will never be done by any jerk in the future ever.

2. As far as naming the big city where you can enlighten yourself with any knowledge regarding our religion and its facts is concerned, you are living in one i.e. New Delhi and the source of that knowledge is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

3. I had no intention of enraging you in this manner and I certainly have nothing to gain by engaging in this useless debate with you or anyone else.
I have nothing but respect to all religions and fellow humans. Please don’t take my comments as personal.

SM:

‎@ Mr. Harbeer. I commented on the 'super- efficient' SGPC, which shoots out comments even where they are non needed, kept amusingly quite when terrorists hid themselves in the Golden temple and did all that I mentioned. My comments were about SGPC, not- again as you have taken to religion- on weather the place gets desecrated or not! Tell me just this, did SGPC act in any way close as it was supposed to act, at that time?

2. I did not ask you the name of the city for my enlightenment Sir. I questioned you about your claimed knowledge. Read this again:
"You have stated "The true story of the ancient Gurmukhi scriptures reaching Azerbaijan is hardly a secret..." Please enlighten us all with this 'Known secret'? Leave that... just name the city where they could be found?? Or even a big city close to that place? Please do I am waiting to learn from you?"
I am asking you to tell me HOW GURMUKHI SCRIPTURES REACHED AZERBAIJAN? And WHERE DO THEY EXIST AS YOU HAVE CLAIMED THIS TO BE A WELL KNOWN FACT,AND NOT ANY SECRET?
I'll be grateful for both, your sharing the information, or accepting its non-availability with you!

HSC: Shyam sir,

I would appreciate if we put a stop to all this as it is getting uglier by the minute.
Further I am not inclined to enter in any kind of debate with you or anyone else, either here or in person. We maintain a formal friendship and let us not disturb that. Further any religion is more about faith than anything else, so let us belief ours and you can believe your ,And keep our beliefs private.

HSC:I made a very humble request to you not to comment further but your latest comment have proven otherwise.

Both our comments (Mine and Harbeer's) were just a general discussion on the history of Sikhism but you on the other had have starting taking the discussion entirely in a different direction taking things as far as 1984 which was totally unrelated and uncalled for.

Now lets say even if you started to completely agree with me or contrary I would start to agree with you, Would either one of us gain anything out of it? I feel not.
I think that all of us have a right to believe what either one of us want to believe and its totally ok with me if our beliefs are not the same. Let us agree to disagree. You can't change my views and I don't even want to attempt to change yours.
I again humbly request you to please stop this right now and let us carry of with our lives as this is not worth it. Either me or Harbeer would now not respond to your reply on this topic.

The devise of self glorification is evident all around. People jump into discussions without any reason and with no substance in their pockets, and then look for escape routs. I wish the gentleman had the courage to accept that he was just boasting of possessing the knowledge, without having it!

The above video and many such mails are engineered to glorify a community at the cost of the other. The 12'O'Clock's association with Sikhs dated back to the times when Sikhs used to attack Mughals camps at midnight, shouting in full screams, thus giving a false idea of their bigger size, which was not visible , due to the advantage of the darkness of night. So it was Muslims who would say "Sadraron ke barah baj gaye, hoshiyaar ho jaao".

How the actual stories are twisted to suit political purposes?

SM

Congress, Khilafat movement & terrorism

The question of the day is that if the Congress party lent its support to Ali brothers led Khilafat movement to topple the government of Mustapha Kemal in Turkey, through rebellion(read 'foreign sponsored' terrorism) in 1919-1924, What face does it have today to point figures on the foreign sponsorers of the day who now have a similar desire against India. Why should Congress be judged by a tilting scale that only favours it?

Akshay Chauhan: To be fair, We should not judge them today by what someone did 100 years ago. The people today have nothing to do with those oldies.

SM: I have often said that if the earlier leaders of any political outfit have made mistakes, than as a democratic set up in a democratic country, the political outfit should Announce that the earlier leadership was wrong in such and such case and we are now announcing the required amendment.... . Manmonan Singh has done this about 84 riots matter, so there exists one loud precedence amongst a few more unsung ones.

Mrs. Indira Gandhi 's abolishing Privy purses and then even titles of the Princely families; her adding the word 'socialism' to the preamble of the constitution meant that for her,the whole Constitutional assembly was nothing but a bunch of nincompoops who were given some time together at the cost of the exchequer and knew nothing as to want to write in the preamble or what constitutional pledge to make? For her the whole leadership, including her father and all others were pygmy fools in front of her mighty intelligence!

Why has the Congress party not passed a resolution to state that supporting Khilafat movement was a mistake? If it has not, then it still stands by its early stand of supporting the toppling of a government in a unconnected state, that too by the use of voilence and other undemocratic tools. And if that is so..we are being ruled by the most hypocritical political outfit available any where in the world!

The communists passed a resolution in thirty's in which they resolved to divide India into small religious and linguistic police states, and thus supported the creation of Pakistan (and earned many muslim intellectuals into Marxism). They have yet not revoked that resolution, meaning that they still stand by it. Dividing India into small police states on lines of religion, region and languages is a resolve of the undivided Communist Parties of India,a resolution inherited and espoused by both the CPI and the CP(M).
WE ALL MUST KNOW THIS!!!!!!!!!!

AC:Tragically, we are taught wrong history in schools. We all read khilafat movement in school but is talks about the "brave" molpahs revolting against the british. Not the true story (U know what i am talking about)Tipu sultan is second example. I cringe when people refer to him as a great hero. I have done extensive research in this matter. It is not based on some bigoted view but historical evidence. But thats because people are taught false history.For example, I don't know if you know this. After the fall of srirangapatnam, lot of Tipu's personal diaries were found. In this, he describes how he got dreams at night where god and prophet imploded him to kill and destroy all the kaffirs. The original documents still exist in archives but not one historian talks about it. I can go on and on....

SM:I am aware of the Tiou documents. I am glad I have found another man of spine in you who has the courage and conviction to say the truth without caring for its political correctness!